Curse

Fire Childe · Mar 18, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Eh, its an easily fixed mistake (unless you have a prophecies character in which case the attribute quests are a bit of a pain in the butt).

It doesnt really bother me if a pickup in pve pings his bar and hes missing 30 attribute points. I'd be more concerned about whether he knows what do with his skillbar since alot of people seem to get cookie cutter pvx wiki templates or wherever and just spam skills, not really knowing what they are supposed to be using them for or when its appropriate to use them or save them. Its absolutely cool if you don't know and have never played the bar before (I've been that person, guested that person and played with them many times before now). But if you are stuck just ask. Don't stay silent.

You notice it from time to time just watching what other players do. Most recently in HA our infuse spotted a monk repeatedly casting Divert Hexes on his teammates. We didnt have any hexes and he was clearly just smashing buttons on a build he was told to play but didn't really know how to play and hoped someone else was steering the ship in the right direction.

Obviously the best situation would be to bag a pickup that has all his attribute points and knows what hes doing. But hey it could be worse - He could refuse to run anything other than Ursan Blessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Let me explain something that will shock many

It is none of your business what armour weapons skills runes etc others have.
Play with them don't play with them but don't start running down they way they run their characters.

Sure it is. Guild Wars is a team game. Everyone in the team needs to know what everyone else is doing and everyone needs to work together. If you don't want to be a team player and are not willing to change your build to fit into a team that is kindly organised by other persons or if you are unwilling to organise a team build yourself then may I suggest you play with heroes and henchmen since they wont have a problem with your attitude.

Its no good packing Holy Wrath and Pain Inverter when one of your team mates is loaded up with Blinds and stuff since Pain Inverter only works when your target hits and does damage, Holy Wrath only works when your target ally gets hit and Blind causes your target to miss 90% of the time. Its a waste. One of you may as well not be there at all.

The complaints about attribute points seem pretty small to me compared to people who are completely unwilling to change things up for the benefit of their own team. Thats worse than playing a skillbar you have no idea how to play, messing everything up and not telling your team about it until the poop has hit the fan.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 18, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

See it is idiot thinking like this is the reason people have quit pugging anymore. Idiots like this who think this is a non competent build for a ranger. When I've seen it work many times over, nobody expects a ranger to be rezzing in the middle of battles either, but, a sneaky ranger/monk build with a hard rez is fun and can catch other teams off guard especially since a ranger can go into whirling and cast a rez easily most times.

So what you're saying, basically, is you're a scrub who would grief their team by running a deliberately low quality build such as a ranger trying to fulfill the monk/rit/NRt's role. I believe ArenaNet's inclusion of a function to report people for griefing indicates that they do not support griefing at all.

Redfeather1975 · Mar 18, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

It's okay to share tips on how to play better, but some people get attitudes and it's no fun.

Everyone loves to play monopoly with my cousin.
They enjoy when he gets really angry that people are putting 2 houses on pink and orange properties, when it's more efficient to put 4 houses on just the orange.
They don't like playing with him no mores. XD

Many people think of games as just games and think it's really weird getting upset over them not being played the best way. I respect their feelings on games. I was once and will be that way again.

zwei2stein · Mar 18, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

People, this is not about builds, doh, read op again. Even terrible snowflakes DO benefit from having those 15/30 atts.

I have no idea why people do NOT get those points, but it is getting more comon lately. Every PUG i was in lately had at least some person missing atts, and it was well beyond point when they can get them. When confronted about that, they go "WTF is that important" and act like i was nitpicking about color of their armor or something. Those were Deep/Urgoz/DOA pugs. DOA HB Monks nearly always run 11/12 spread.

Weird thing is, noone else in group seems to care.

With all the people who want higher levels and more imba power, one would think that people who attempt elite missions can expend 15 minutes it takes to get those points and more imba power.

Pleikki · Mar 18, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

mm i managed easyly do Hm Uw/fow finished all campaings and did some dungeosn my monk with 185attri

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 18, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Hey, I have no problems facing someone in PvP who decided to use their 170-attribute-point, non-max-armour PvE character. It's when they show up on my team that I report them for griefing.

tmr819 · Mar 18, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

I'm not sure everyone even knows about the additional attribute points -- or how to get them.

I can recall playing Prophecies with a couple of characters and then playing Factions with a character and doing the quest for extra attribute points in Factions. I remember thinking, "Hey, how come my Faction toon gets extra points but not my Prophecies toons?"

A bit of looking around (wiki ...

) showed me that the extra points were also available in Prophecies. If the attribute point quests were easier to find, I imagine more people would do them.

MagmaRed · Mar 18, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

So, if the quests are easily missed, why are guilds/friends not helping people find them? I always tell people in my guild to get them done, as it will make their builds better. If they need help, and I can help them, I do so. In the last week, I have joined 17 PUGs for FoW. Only once was I in one where each member had all 200 attribute points. If there are that many people missing the quests, why aren't their guilds/friends helping them?

If someone wants to play a bad build, with less attributes than they could, skills that don't mesh, etc. fine. I don't care if they want to suck. However, if they are doing that, they need to play with people who will 'role play' with them, or they need to hero/hench. Joining a PUG and using a build that doesn't help the team is not what team play is about.

CHALLENGE!

For all those who have guild members that are new, bad, or play rarely, help them find and complete the attribute point quests. They are not hard, don't take a lot of time, and do give a player more options.

Tyla · Mar 18, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Because they're bad at the game.
The most scary thing for me is when they put things in attribs they're not using (IF it's not an attrib with an effect)...

ogre_jd · Mar 18, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Frankly, unless someone's using 4 attributes, those 30 points aren't going to make any real difference for most skills and builds.

enter_the_zone · Mar 18, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Amen brotherman you tell em. Everyone doesn't want to play "Clone wars" and be like everybody else. Everybody doesn't want to play powergamer or be an elitist sob. Some people like to roleplay and if you've ever played dnd thas what you can do you can "gimp" your character to roleplay the type of character you want. Too many powerpushers in this game like the OP that think everything revolves around how THEY play the game. Well I'm like the above person I paid for the game to play it MY way not YOUR way or anyone else's way and I've gotten through the entire 3 chapters and the expansion playing MY way so don't act like YOUR way is the only way. IGMO

See it is idiot thinking like this is the reason people have quit pugging anymore. Idiots like this who think this is a non competent build for a ranger. When I've seen it work many times over, nobody expects a ranger to be rezzing in the middle of battles either, but, a sneaky ranger/monk build with a hard rez is fun and can catch other teams off guard especially since a ranger can go into whirling and cast a rez easily most times.

Rezzing != Healing, which was the specific example. As someone who plays a ranger as my main char, I can honestly say that rangers suck at healing others. Frankly, rangers suck at most casting roles, because that's not their job. Taking a R/Me with a load of Me interrupts is stupid since the energy management sucks, the energy pool is smaller, and the regen is less.

It's called synergy. Some things work in a group, some don't. Some areas require certain types of builds, some don't. Taking any monk with a random bar of smites is not effective when you need a healing monk.

Most people stopped pugging to get away from retards who can't spec a decent bar or team.

Painbringer · Mar 18, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I understand what you are saying but what if I need 4 lines of Attribute
Not that i would use it all the time but there are some builds

stretchs · Mar 18, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Heh they are important to a point, but funny enough, I had gotten up over 2mil exp on my ele, and was trying to run a bar, and couldnt figure out why my atts didnt fit, after looking around, I realized I had never done the desert 15 att quest. So the char was over 2yrs old and never realized the shortcomings. Since then I have gotten it, and now have over 9mil exp, but was pretty funny when I realized I hadnt done that silly desert quest

Phaern Majes · Mar 18, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Yeah, you be damned if you play with a bar which you think is fun.

QFT.

I always get the full 200 points when I can, its just better plain and simple. But that doesn't mean I'll play the flavor of the month build :P

Velise_Snowtorm · Mar 18, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I think you see players with low-xp'd toons in ToA simply because it's available on the map well before the character is technically ready to explore the areas. Particularly when you can get ran there very easily.

I've met players who didn't even know about the second attribute quests, and a couple were grateful when I told them where to go for it.

Just.nl · Mar 18, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I always get so fast as possible 200 Attribute points... I spend than always... But why dont use them.. Are some GW-Players so so.. that they dont know why the have got attributes? Mostly if i go do FoW i always get a Guild-Team... First we had in 3 hours FoW Cleared 11 quests done at HM.. Our guild is very friendly and cool

so if you got a question like Where is the ?? man.. But if you ask their What Can I Do With Attributes you get kicked... Because first learn to play GW

thunderai · Mar 18, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I beat Prophacies, Factions, and Nightfall with only 170 atts. I did not do the two att quests in factions until well after when I was doing quests I didn't do the first time through.

I did not have any problems. Hell I beat nightfall with the oddest ranger build ever.

Conjure Flame, Flare, meter, and pin down where my main weapons. PvE is just to easy to really get caught up in if +1 in expertise really makes a difference... in a 5 pip e skill +1 wont make any difference at all.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 18, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I understand that you *can* do it, but I can't understand why you would. The quests take maybe 10 minutes each for a pretty decent increase in power.

It's roughly the equivalent of running around without runes, or with a non-max non-customized weapon. Yes, you'll probably be ok, but why make things harder on yourself?

gremlin · Mar 18, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

[QUOTE=

Sure it is. Guild Wars is a team game. Everyone in the team needs to know what everyone else is doing and everyone needs to work together. If you don't want to be a team player and are not willing to change your build to fit into a team that is kindly organised by other persons or if you are unwilling to organise a team build yourself then may I suggest you play with heroes and henchmen since they wont have a problem with your attitude.

Its no good packing Holy Wrath and Pain Inverter when one of your team mates is loaded up with Blinds and stuff since Pain Inverter only works when your target hits and does damage, Holy Wrath only works when your target ally gets hit and Blind causes your target to miss 90% of the time. Its a waste. One of you may as well not be there at all.

The complaints about attribute points seem pretty small to me compared to people who are completely unwilling to change things up for the benefit of their own team. Thats worse than playing a skillbar you have no idea how to play, messing everything up and not telling your team about it until the poop has hit the fan.[/QUOTE]

Yes GW is a team game and when I play with my guild I take note of what we as a team are doing and adjust accordingly.

When playing with a pug I look to see other player classes I might ask players what general build they have.
So for instance if I am mm necro and someone else is mm necro I might offer to go ss build.
If someone has a ranger and I have one I might ask if we are using pets or what spirits we both have so we don't cancel each others out same with ritualist spirits and so on.

What I would never do is try to enforce my views on others.
I might change my build so it works better with what they tell me that's my choice

Divine is Faith · Mar 18, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Its no good packing Holy Wrath and Pain Inverter when one of your team mates is loaded up with Blinds and stuff since Pain Inverter only works when your target hits and does damage, Holy Wrath only works when your target ally gets hit and Blind causes your target to miss 90% of the time. Its a waste. One of you may as well not be there at all.

Ok you must not be reading pain inverter correctly or you have another version of pain inverter that nobody else has. When pain inverter is cast on an enemy that enemy receives damage when he attacks (attacks do consist of more than melee attacks does blind effect casted attacks?.) any ally including pets, minions, hench, or npc. Maybe the person loaded up with blind should change his build so that someone with a decent lvl in asuran can use pain inverter and kill the enemy that much faster. So you should always take pain inverter especially in areas that have enemies that do lots of AoE damage. MM + Pain inverter = instant deaths.

As far as having all the attribute points I would say that if your build doesnt need it then why bother. I have run a full channeling skill bar before and been very effective with it. If I use skills from other classes they are usually skills that dont require any attribs. (Echo) or Skills from one of the EOTN titles. Pain inverter is my favorite. Using these builds I only max channeling and dont really need points in anything else. I could put points in spawning but the extra life on destruction isnt necessary since the point of that spirt is to die and hurt enemies in the area. I can run my rit with 12 in channeling and 0 in everything else. I wish I could just up my channeling some more

.